Alright, I really wanted to avoid pigeon-holing this blog into a politics, religion, philosophy category because I don't want to be seen as speaking for anyone but myself.
I am no more qualified to write on philosophy than your average joe and I'm even less qualified than that perhaps to write on religion.
Nevertheless, that's what seems to attract my attention and so maybe that's what this blog will become. It's definitely the topic of this entry.
My thoughts on the Church
I decided to write this blog for a few reasons. While a couple of friends and I are engaged in a serious debate on faith and reason and the Bible and whether God is good etc., I've decided to speak for a moment to my fellow Christians and even more so, fellow Catholics.
THIS BLOG IS INTENDED FOR CATHOLIC AUDIENCES. BE ADVISED.
I believe by faith that Christianity is the truth. Furthermore, I believe the Catholic Church to be God's Church, legitimate by Apostolic Succession from Jesus to Peter to Benedict XVI. What I intend to discuss today are some of the reasons why I love this Church.
I read this article today: German Catholics urge reforms as papal visit nears
The article starts "Over 140 Roman Catholic theologians in Germany have urged the church to embrace far-reaching reforms to end priestly celibacy, ordain women, welcome same-sex couples and let lay people help pick their bishops."
While the Church hasn't responded to this and likely won't, I like to picture in my mind one way they could. They could dress Damon Wayans back up as Homey the Clown, walk him over to these theologians, have him hit them with a sock and say "Homey don't play dat."
Of course fortunately for us all Church leaders are often more mature than my imagination.
One reason I love the Catholic Church is that while reform is encouraged when needed, it doesn't bow to the whims of modernity.
The Catholic church doesn't look at the world, see it changing and then go "I guess we need to keep up."
The Catholic Church instead says "God showed us the way long ago, if the world gets away from that, it's all the more reason for us to hold fast to the proper way and be a beacon."
Now some reforms can be discussed like for example priestly celibacy. It could be on the table, but it isn't at the moment. There are married Catholic Priest in the orthodox world and some in the Latin rite who are converted ministers from other faiths. The thing is, why change this?
Will letting married men become priest stamp out pedophilia? Will it increase mass attendance? Will it do anything but take some of a pastor's attention off his flock?
I don't think so. As the priest shortage continues this may become a moot point and we may have to go this route, but so long as there is no benefit to changing except that the modern sex-crazed world could feel better about itself, I see no reason too.
Another reason I love the Church is that it sticks to its guns. Some (mind you not all) protestant groups often charge the Church with not being biblical enough. The less educated think we worship Mary and the saints etc. In reality, we draw everything from the bible and early church tradition. We're not the ones rewriting Christianity to keep church attendance up.
The church works in part because of Apostolic Succession, Jesus gave the keys to Peter and so on. As Jesus chose no women for public ministry in the same way, the Church has no authority to ordain women.
On the other hand, there has been a male domination of the Church that can at times be bad. Now though, women can hold any post in the Church except Deacon or Priest (and hence Bishop and Pope). They can be extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist, they can be lecters, altar girls, parish council presidents, parish business managers etc.
So though the Church grows and develops and reforms, it doesn't change it's core because it's unpopular.
People want the Church to accept gays, but they're not paying attention. We do. Don't get me wrong here I bet most congregations have bunches of homophobes in them but I'm talking about Church teaching.
The Church officially (not that it should have been needed) affirmed the dignity of homosexuals as made in the image and likeness of God, admitted that it is not a lifestyle choice but a built-in inclination and has encouraged outreach. However as the Bible speaks of homosexual acts being wrong, the Church has no authority to change that. The Church teaches all people that sexual activity is for marriage, and that the sacrament of marriage is between a man and a woman. Being gay is not a sin, extramarital sexual activity is. It's as much as sin for a straight person as it is for a gay person. Yes the straight person has the benefit of possible future marriage but that's something above my pay grade.
Now is it hard to stick to these unpopular beliefs? Of course. Jesus said it would be and that those who do will be blessed. The world tries again and again to turn away from God and members of the Church from the bottom to the top fail God again and again but the teachings remain as a beacon.
In a world that says everything is OK so long as it's right by you, the Church serves to remind that it's not us that determines what is ok. There is right, there is wrong and there are eternal truths.
You can change the music, you can alter the mass in some ways, you can change the priests outfits and you can allow interpretive dance in the aisles if you want. These are ways the Church can look to adapt to modern times (I don't recommend the dancing, I've seen it).
What we cannot do however is say that God's teachings as preserved by the Church are suddenly wrong because the secular world says so.
From facebook...
ReplyDeleteAmy,
You miss my point. I said that changing the rules on priests and marriage is in deed as you say a change by man, something we can change. This will no in anyway change what screwed up people do.
Where does the Bible give the Church authority to ordain women?
Men and women of the Church have made mistakes, I said that flat out. It's the teachings that remain consistent. Not what some teacher nun at St. (Insertnamehere) taught per se, but what the universal church taught.
On the last part, a priest who sins in the horrible way you mention and anyone who covered it up will be judged by God. The scandals have shown us again the the men of the Church can fail and fall but the amazing thing is that even with such troubled people finding their ways into those positions, the faith and teachings remained sound.
If one doesn't believe that, I don't know why one would be Catholic with the million other Christian options out there.
The sins of a priest in no way damn the church any more than the sins of a professor damn college learning. The men can fail, the Church itself does not. It's a strange dichotomy but it works.
From Facebook,
ReplyDelete"Kelly Piller
I want to say don't worry about talking about the things that most interest you on your blog, be in religion, or politics. Tis your blog, and your opinion, state it as you wish. holla
I guess I can't really comment on the catholic church on... this one, I pretty much left it when I was 12 ish, and then never came back to it. It is noble to stick to your guns though, you might as well have an opinion on things rather than letting others do that for you.
I don't mind the catholic church saying whatever they wish, but I do take issue with any religion feeling as though they have the power to make people live a certain way. Now that statement is to any religion, because I'm sure everyone who picked a religion to follow actually believes their religion is the right way, or I should say most people who picked a religion.
This is all my opinion though, I'm slightly different, I find life more interesting when no one really knows the for sure thing, a giant ocean of humans taking their best guess. I like that free will thing, it sounds lovely"
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Kelly,
I understand your point of view.
But the Church doesn't feel it has the power to tell anyone how to live. As Catholics, we believe God did that, not us. We were taught it by Him through the Bible and the thousands of years of tradition since.
If God doesn't exist or the Bible is bull, then you are even more right, the Church would be nothing more than a shot in the dark guess. But if God does, and he is the God of the Bible, then we aren't able to change things to suit us.
(On an unrelated note I think that is why I sometimes prefer non-Christians to Christians from wishy-washy modern denominations.)
I also don't think the Church does our thinking for us if that's what you were implying. It's just like a parent teaches a child to how to get dressed or in older times how to hunt or fish.
You could say it's better for the child to learn these things on their own, but why put them through that when for the last XX number of years humanity had already learned these things. There's no reason to start from scratch with each generation.
Valid, I understand the your reasons for why the catholic church has it's views, and the possible shot in the dark if it all doesn't exist.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't talking about the church doing the thinking for anyone though, I'm sure even if the church taught certain things people would still at least think about it all. What I meant by any religion thinking they have power to tell people how to live mostly stems from thinking laws can be made for everyone, even if everyone doesn't follow that one religion. This is a whole other issue entirely though, and there are many forms of government, some even ordained by god.
You'll have to forgive me for the following statements though, and feel free to comment since I'm uneducated on the subject. I "believe" the pope has the right to comment on the teachings of catholic churches around the world. This makes complete sense to me, if you follow the roman catholic church, and he's the head guy, then sure he should have power or say in how roman catholic churches are run. That type of power is fine and I completely understand it, it's the roman catholic church's system and beliefs.
I just don't agree when it crosses over that, complicated issue I know. If you have a democracy mostly of roman catholic citizens of course they're going to vote a way in which they see fit. When a country has multiple religions with different beliefs and rules though, it gets complicated.
SIDENOTE i visited the palais des papes aka palace of the popes in avignon france once, super pretty. I remember the tour guide explaining though that a pope is always correct, even if a pope who follows his leadership disagrees with the previous pope. I thought that was interesting.
2nd SIDENOTE: high five right i commented on the actual blog, it's cool i'll give myself a pat on the back
YESSS that completely worked!!!! also I like that I set up an account, and then posted, and right away i notice typos like "church has it's views" should be "church has its views"
ReplyDeleteTOO LATE
Your tour guide was an idiot. Popes are wrong about a lot of things. Just not when speaking ex cathedra...also a whole other topic.
ReplyDeleteThe pope is the leader of all Catholic churches and is like a spiritual guide. Also like an executive.
I don't believe we should completely legislate morality except for the extreme (murder, theft etc.) but I have a weird system on for that as well that considers that status quo etc.
and yes, HIGH FIVE
Hahahahhaa well I can't really defend my tour guide, since I only listened to him for probably an hour. It's likely he may very well be an idiot.
ReplyDeletePiller I understand what you're saying about the church crossing the line and doling out rules for the secular world outside of its own religion. However I don't believe that's what they are doing. Yes the pope makes statements about how people should live based upon the teachings of the church, bible, etc., but you have to understand that that is a means of communication with other members of the church since it is a global church.
ReplyDeleteThe pope is the leader of the church, just like Obama is the leader of the US. People all over the world hear what Obama says even though he is not their leader. Just like the popes statements are heard around the world. The difficulty with the church as opposed to a nation, is that there is no specific geographical region of followers, we are spread out all over.
I know that many people want to inflict their beliefs through laws governing the general population. This is an area that I go back and forth with. On one hand I am a christian and as such I believe in sin and that we should try our best to avoid sinning, so logically it would make sense to have laws that would assist in preventing sin. But I also understand that not everyone believes what I believe. I think there should be some obvious laws, like do not murder! I think that some of the problems with religion mixing into politics could be "solved" if the government took a step back. I believe it is the governments job to make sure we have roads to use, schools to attend, a way to defend ourselves and so on. But I think once we start to get into things like marriage for instance, it is such a personal thing that there is no way to govern it without religion being involved. If it were up to me marriage licenses would not exist. If you wanted to get married all you would have to do is find a priest, minister, or jp who was willing to do it and leave the government out of it.
Not that this is the point, but I could see an end to priestly celebacy as a possibility, maybe sometime in the next 50 years. The church has made similar concessions to anglican priests to get them back in the fold.
ReplyDeleteI could see that being the kind of sacrifice the Vatican would make, if they thought it would help church membership. Possibly. Probably not.. But it's not impossible.
Are we your demons, John?
ReplyDeletesorry kelli i didn't see you typed something till today. Oh yeah I completely understand the pope speaking to all the catholic churches around the world, he needs to, he's running that place :D
ReplyDeleteLike umm lets see what's an example, I think Italy was voting on gay marriage so the pope spoke out against it, and he's completely allowed to do that. The only time i would be mad in that instance would be if the people of Italy voted for gay marriage and the pope vetoed it for the country, which yes he's not allowed to do (and he didn't). But speak about it all you want. I'm sure as heck going to speak too, you know.
As for marriage anywhere really, that differs depending on the culture. Even reasons for marrying differ, people may marry for social, economical, emotional, legal, spiritual, or religious reasons (ahhaa there's probably bunches of other reasons i'm neglecting to mention). I mean I'll have atheist friends that are going to marry, and a friend who has an arranged marriage coming up.
You of course have your reasons for marrying and a religious institution to marry into. In the u.s. though since not everyone in it has a religion, and there are many religions, marriage is a very legal thing. If that's a good or a bad thing I'm not sure on that at all. It does however offer people and families security and a way to be looked at in american society. I mean taxes, insurance, medical, inheritance, employment, banks all have things in it that take marriage into consideration. So I don't believe one view of marriage can be applied to everyone in the united states.
har har har i always feel like i start rambling and lose myself :D wooooot I'm sure we all know why I talk about this subject, gay marriage is an issue for me. I think government wise it should be recognized, but of course you can't make a religious institution allow that type of marriage. pfffffft that's their stuff. Although there are actually religious groups that will perform gay marriages, and yes it's only personal, b/c as far as the federal government of the u.s. is concerned that is not recognized. Actually even if a state in the u.s. allows gay marriage that only applies to that states laws, not the federal laws of the u.s.
UGGGGGH look at this pointless ramble, i don't even know if i'm agreeing or disagreeing or just commenting at this point :D, that's okay, i'm fine with that.
yeah also murder is bad ;) i'll agree with anything that inflicts upon the rights of another american citizen, ending their life probably isn't something that american citizen would have wanted. Wooot and yes it does happen to be a christian religious moral law as well. So yeah I completely agree that area is murky and I can see how people go back and forth all the time on how involved it all is.